Store policies when Highflow makes a mistake - a warning to other users

[Manuel Diego]

This is a warning to all of you who use the Highflow store: beware, in case Highflow makes any mistake delivering your orders, they will want you to pay the transportation of the articles back to the store to have the problem solved. This goes against the law, but it's how this store works. I am currently in the process of claiming legally that they comply to their legal obligations, which so far they refuse to do, ignoring that the law (and common sense) obliges them to take responsibility of their faulty deeds, as logic dictates, our mothers teached us all, and the law clearly specifies. They might offer alternative solutions, like offering a few store points (1 point = €0.02. So, for every Euro you will spend that you didn't have to, they will refund themselves, as the points are only valid in their store, with €0,02), to evade their responsibility: remember, you don't have to accept this, they have to pay for their mistakes, as everybody else. Take legal actions against such behaviours, you have rights they can't simply ignore!

I guess the forum webmaster will remove this message as soon as he/she sees it, eventhough it does not violate any of the forum rules. If they were legally right in what they are doing with me (and might do to you!), they wouldn't remove this thread, they would simply present facts to turn my arguments down, and show everybody that i'm just resentful because of gods know what insanity i may have. But as that cannot happen (not with the current laws), they will most likely need to censor this thread. Time will tell...

So i don't expect many of you to read about this, but i have to try: beware, this store doesn't play lawfully, and they may try to trick you like they are trying to trick me!

Otherwise, a great store with a huge inventory, a shame it's run as it is...

Manuel Diego

 

[B0B0]

when i got a wrong revesion of a part i ordered the highflow shop send GLS to pick it up so it's not true that u allways have to pay for a mistake made on their behalve...

Greetz B0B0

 

[Sw333t]

like offering a few store points (1 point = €0.02. So, for every Euro you will spend that you didn't have to, they will refund themselves, as the points are only valid in their store, with €0,02)

You got it all wrong. Store points are valued at EUR 0,20 each.

But thank you for your warning. I will think about it when i purchase more stuff @ HighFlow.

 

[Manuel Diego]

Glad to hear you didn't have that same issue, you can count yourself lucky, because, as the Higflow customer service tells me, their policy is, and i quote, "If products are wrongly delivered, you can sent it back to us to exchange". You, not them. Then they continue telling me that, and i quote again, "The customer pays shipping costs for sending it back". Finally, they tell me that "About your dissatisfaction, we’ve been running our business for quite few years now with mostly happy customers. The RMA procedures are always like this and most of the other stores do it the same way.".

I'm not inventing this, i'm glad to hear that not all customers have to go through this pain i'm going through. However, their policy, as they indicated themselves, is to make their customers pay for the return of the articles, which is against the law.

I'm from Spain. In e-commerce, the laws that apply when online shops are delivering to any country are those of the country to which the goods are delivered, so in my case Spain. And in Spain, and i guess in the rest of the European Union, when the seller makes a mistake, they assume all costs. It's the law.

As for the points: indeed, 1 point = €0.20. However, they give you 1 point for every €10 you spend. Therefore, if you spend €1 in the store, they give you 0,1 points, which are worth €0.02. It's maths...

 

[The Grinch]

all fun and games flaming on the shops forum, but could you at least be clear? as in, what is your actual situation?
did they deliver your the wrong goods? did they make the mistake of did you make a mistake in your order?

and i don't know how long you've been customer at High Flow, but i've been for a couple of years now. never had any trouble with them and if i did, they help me resolve it.
and i believe that this will be the case in most if not all forum users(correct me if i'm wrong guys!)

so could you please be reasonable and clearly describe your situation and the reason why you felt you needed to flame like this on the forum?

thanks..

 

[Manuel Diego]

Sure, i can give more details: i ordered a whole bunch of liquid cooling stuff to make the coolest double-loop Among many other things, i ordered some White led bars, and a lasercut fan grill (the counter-strike one). I got the order on Tuesday this week, and the leds where UV, and the grill was the biohazzard one. The rest was all good.

It was not my mistake, the list of goods does say clearly Counter-strike for the grill, and White for the leds. So it's an error of Highflow. We all make mistakes, that's not my point, i would have been very happy if they had solved the issue as they should have. The problem is that the mistake is theirs and they want me to pay to have it solved. Not pay all costs, just part of them. But nevertheless, it's THEIR mistake, not mine, they should take full responsibility.

This is my first purchase to Highflow, and considering how things are going, my last. I do not spend €1100 in a store that scams me more than once. I don't doubt that most customers never have had any issues, else the store would have been closed long ago. I just want to warn other customers that, should they find themselves in the same situation as me, should they receive the wrong articles and be asked to pay for the return, they should know they DO NOT have to do so, that it's Highflow's responsibility to pay for their mistakes.

And Grinch, i think i'm being most reasonable, and i'm not flaming anything, i'm just sharing my experience, and informing my fellow modders of a situation they might find themselves in if this is really Highflow's policy, as they told me by mail. It's not because of the amount itself, it will just be a few €, it's a principles thing: we customers have rights, and no company can ignore them. And as a social responsibility matter, i feel obliged to share this with other modders so that it is known that this did happen. If i simply go the legal route and claim my rights (which i'm currently doing already) privately, Highflow might keep on doing this which is illegal to others. Making this public will put pressure on Highflow to abide by the law.

 

[Freddy]

Moved to "shop review" forum.

To make story short, if I got it correctly:

1) Manuel places order
2) HighFlow ships order
3) Manuel receives order
4) Manuel notes 2 wrong delivered items and e-mails HighFlow
5) HighFlow mails back, that the two items can be sent back to us, so it can be replaced by the correct items
6) Manuel complains about shipping costs for sending it back
7) HighFlow mails to include copy of invoice/bill of the shipping costs, from local post office, we will refund that amount if the products are wrongly delivered (we have to get it back to be sure before exchange).
Also the shipping costs for sending the correct items from HighFlow to Manuel is of course not charged, as it's our mistake if wrong items were sent.
8) Manuel still not satisfied and complains about our store policy

Also Manuel demands a pickup, but our contract with PostNL does not support pickups in Spain.
We can only do pickups in BeNeLux and Germany by GLS.

 

[Sw333t]

I really must say, that HighFlow did give you enough support for your issue. They are willing to refund you the costs of the return, which is according to the European law. Surely, pickup would be best for the end-user. But then again, HighFlow clearly is not legally bounded to provide pickup.

So pretty much, i will see your first post as flaming.

 

[Freddy]

I think there's somewhat of a misunderstanding between what Manuel wants/expects and what we can do.
If it's the pickup issue, we apologize, you really have to go to the local postoffice (that's not very odd though).
If it's something else, you can e-mail me directly at freddy@highflow and please be clear what you want/expect.

 

[B0B0]

most RMA services does indeed ask u to send an invoice of the shipping costs back to the shop and after u receive the right part u get also the shipping costs refunded, at least that's my experience with companies like motorola & EK waterblocks...
so if u're infact to lazy to make the effort to ship them back then good luck with any lawsuite
and if highflow wouldn't suggested to pick up the item i wouldn't have gotten any problems sending it back myself

Greetz B0B0

 

[Manuel Diego]

Hehe, i see you guys are a trustworty, loyal clientship for Highflow, good for you

Freddy did a summary that is a good work in public relations management: on the one hand, he overlooks the key conundrum here: Highflow makes a mistake, the client has to pay for it; because he misleadingly says that they are offering me a refund, but they are not. They offer me something they call a refund, but that is not a refund: for every €1 that i have to pay to compensate their mistake, they will give me €0.02 that i can only spend in Higflow. So, assuming the return costs me €20, the "refund" i would get would be €0.40 that i can only spend on Highflow goods. That means that this will cost me... €20. I had €20 in my wallet today, tomorrow they won't be there. In my book, that's not a refund, that's making the customer pay.

A refund is precisely what i'm asking for and they don't want to give me, as i understand is my right. i'm asking them to give me €20 if the return costs me €20, it's that simple. Besides, if they had a good customer relationship management, they could think: "OK, so here's a new client that just spent €1100 in the store. Nice, a new client! And he didn't just buy a couple of leds and some cable wraps, no, he spent quite a lot of money, looks like a good potential future client! But, are we bad, we sent him the wrong articles, our mistake, the person who prepared the package overlooked what he was doing, and we did it wrong. Let's take the product back at our cost, and send him back what he paid for. How do we do this? Let's do it the easier way for him, this is his first experience with us, let's show him that we are a reliable store, open and caring to our customers problems, moreover when WE did it wrong".

A car analogy, i think is most enlightining: you buy a car, a RED car, €100.000. It's not physically there yet, so you order it, and pay the whole price for it in advance. The day you get the car, it's BLUE. You tell the cardealer "hey, i thought i bought a red car, not a blue car". Reply: "hummm, well, indeed it's blue, and indeed you order and payed for a red car. That is all true, we recognize it. Now, if you want it red, we will charge you for painting it, €2.000. What? you don't like this? Ok, ok, i offer you a "refund": i will still charge you the €2.000 to have painted red, but as i'm so very nice, i will give you €40 in vouchers that you can only spend in this cardealership. What, you're still not happy? You are crazy and ask for impossible things, this is how we've been working so far and nobody's complained just yet!". True story...

So i really can't understand their position. to me, it's absolutely clear that this is NOT how it should be, and i intend to fight for my rights. I will fight for my rights, and against my lazyness...

 

[k.3nny]

u cant get a refund on your shipping costs, Oh and btw! a fangrill and a ledstip can de send in a Bubble envelope!, wil cost u max 5 euro on shipping them

 

[The Grinch]

besides i think your getting the point system mixed up here. you get those points by buying items from high flow. not for refunds.(not to my knowledge)
kind of like frequent flyer miles.

Moved to "shop review" forum.

7) HighFlow mails to include copy of invoice/bill of the shipping costs, from local post office, we will refund that amount if the products are wrongly delivered (we have to get it back to be sure before exchange).
Also the shipping costs for sending the correct items from HighFlow to Manuel is of course not charged, as it's our mistake if wrong items were sent.
8) Manuel still not satisfied and complains about our store policy

Also Manuel demands a pickup, but our contract with PostNL does not support pickups in Spain.
We can only do pickups in BeNeLux and Germany by GLS.

clearly says that they have to confirm the wrongly delivered items, before they can refund you and help you at their own expense.
it also states that they cannot do a pick up service in spain, due to the contract they have in logistics.

 

[Manuel Diego]

It's not for the money itself, i don't care for €20, or €5. That's not the issue. It's a matter of what is legal and what is not.

The law is: if you ship to any country, you abide by the law in the country where yuo do those shipments. The law in Spain is very clear: if you purchase online and do not get what you ordered, the seller has to solve the issue at no cost for you. Period. I would have a hard time imagining that this law only exists in Spain and not in the whole European Union. First because this comes from a European Directive, and second because it makes perfect sense: he who makes the mistake, pays for the solution.

I don't make the laws. But i don't like when others ignore them, as a general rule, and even less when it's me who pays the other's feast. This may seem like a psychotic rant, what's this guy doing yelling so much for €5, a misery, but only if you forget that the guy is being asked to pay for someone else's mistake. If that were you, i would like to see your face when they tell you (and once again, i quote Higflow's customer service) "The customer pays shipping costs for sending it back. We pay the shipping costs for the shipment to the customer again". This is the standard policy of Highflow. Only when i yelled a little more did they offer the "refund". So the so-called "refund" is not the standard, the standard is "you pay for our mistakes (half, but you pay. Our mistake, yes, that we recognize)".

So no, i'm not at all happy, how could i? There's a very bad word for such a thing, this is called "stealing". Definitely not the biggest robbery of all times that will make me live under a bridge, but stealing anyway...

 

[Sw333t]

if you purchase online and do not get what you ordered, the seller has to solve the issue at no cost for you. Period.

7) HighFlow mails to include copy of invoice/bill of the shipping costs, from local post office, we will refund that amount if the products are wrongly delivered (we have to get it back to be sure before exchange).
Also the shipping costs for sending the correct items from HighFlow to Manuel is of course not charged, as it's our mistake if wrong items were sent.

Correctly solved in my way of thinking.

 

[Manuel Diego]

Grinch, wwwicked: what you say would make sense, if only what Freddy details would be entriely true. I have already explained why it is not true. I do have all the mails from Highflow's Customer Service, in which you can see that they are NOT offering a refund. If they were, i'd be more than happy (not to buy here ever again), and this discussion wouldn't be happening. But the fact is that they are not offering any real refund, they are offering a very partial refund of 1€ for every €50 i have to spend in return costs, and that i can only spend in the store. That is not a refund, in my book. A refund is "you spend €X, we give you back €X, and you spend it wherever it pleases you". Otherwise, it's not a refund, and it's illegal.

Let's go over it again: I ask Highflow how this RMA works, and who pays the dispatch. Their answer (bold is mine):

RMA shipping costs are shared by us.
The customer pays shipping costs for sending it back.
We pay the shipping costs for the shipment to the customer again.

See: NO REFUND. That's their initial move, trying to make the customer pay as much as possible for Highflow's mistake. So i protest, i complain again. Next move from Highflow:

I’ve discussed it with our manager and if the product is wrongly delivered, we will give you the costs for the shipping costs as reward points to your account.

So some kind of refund is only offered after a session of yelling, this is not standard. But how does this "points thing work exactly, i wonder? So i ask them, and the reply is:

If you sent it back, please try to send the postal bill with it (or scan it at home and e-mail us). We can use that amount.

More about reward points can be found here:
HighFlow Reward Points Saving

So i go to the link, and read:

We reward every customer with one reward point for every €10,- spent

and

Five reward points equals €1.-

I make my maths: if i have to spend €1, they will give me 0.1 points, which are worth €0.02.

Again: NOT a refund. But even if i got the equivalent points to €20, it would not be a refund, because that money wouldn't be mine anymore, i could only spend it in this store. When someone offers me such a "refund", i think "steal".

 

[k.3nny]

/rage

 

[l3p]

If your first post would have been different I would have actually read it all.

 

[Manuel Diego]

K.3nny: easy to make jokes when it's someone else's problem. This is cheap for you (unless you happen to have a problem in an order, of course, then you will be attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped hellically around an axis:

)

 

[Freddy]

If items are sent wrong by our mistake, shipping costs for both back and forth are for us.
Customer doesn't have to pay for our mistake.

However, if customer ordered wrong himself, and want to change for different product or full refund, shipping costs for sending back to us is for the customer.

But we do need to get back the items first, before refunds/shipments of correct items are made.
So that's why you need to go the post office and sent it back to us first.

With broken products, shipping costs are shared.
So shipping costs for sending back is for the customer and a repaired/replacement shipment is for us.
It might be a manufacturer error or it might be broken by the customer, it has to be checked.

About refunds, we always advise our customer to take reward points first, as they can use it for their next order or want to order some different products. It's the most easy solution for most custumers and us.
But if you like a refund by bank transfer of PayPal, that's also possible, just note it in your guiding letter (and account info) which you ship together with your RMA.
And the reward points you get are the FULL value of the products/services, no tricky shizzle there, otherwise you wouldn't be the first complaining here

We really like to help our customers the best way possible, but we can't do much more than this...